ILP in the fall

topic posted Sun, April 9, 2006 - 9:37 PM by  joefunva
Hi Guys,
I'm considering taking the Introduction Leaders Program (ILP) in the fall in DC. To me, it looks like about the same amount of work/time as coaching SELP (which I'm doing now). So if you've done ILP, how would you describe it and what did you get out of it?
Joe
posted by:
joefunva
Virginia
  • Tex
    Tex
    offline 2

    Re: ILP in the fall

    Mon, April 10, 2006 - 7:06 AM
    Hi Joe,

    You may recall me talking about the GSLP(Guest Seminar Leader Program.) Although this was the origanl program I have compared notes with more recent ILPers and think they are very similar, although I'm sure things have also changed. Probably no training videos with Werner, for example.

    The good.

    1.) I learned valuable sales techniques. I should say more sales philosophies. I've used them for over 23 years.
    2.) I got to help people decide on whether to take a course I found extremely valuable and powerful. This was fun and rewarding.
    3.) I met some new friends.
    4. ) I had a chance to sharpen my public speaking skills in front of hundreds of people.
    5.) I learned about the value of produncing results as opposed to just looking good.
    6.) It deepened my ability to relate with others.

    The bad

    1.) You are trying to produce statistics(quotas) for a for-profit-company.
    2.) Many people allow it to effect their work and family life, to it's detriment.
    3.) They used to suggest you make up "stories" to "touch, move and inspire," although we didn't use that exact phrase in those days. This flew in the face of the "tell it like it is, always tell the truth" philosophy that many of us found so powerful in Est.
    We were invited to speak before an est Training about bringing guests to the "graduation."
    When everyone in my GSLP told the trainer that we hadn't brought any guest to the graduation, her response was "So what, make something up!"

    The attitude seemed to be that the ends justified the means.

    I was one of the few people that did address that Training, as I had a friend I had enrolled and registered attending. Nothing about bringing anyone to the graduation, as I wasn't going to lie about it. That part of GSLP was the most paradoxical, as it ran contrary to one of the most powerful and valuable lessons I learned from Est, tell the truth, don't bullsh!t.

    If you do it Joe, just keep the whole thing in perspective. It should enhance your life, not detract from it. I left half way through my GSLP. I was made an example of for being 2 minutes late for an assisting agreement. If I had run from the parking garage to the hotel I could have made it. I CHOSE not to. {:~D
    • Re: ILP in the fall

      Mon, April 10, 2006 - 11:53 AM
      Thank you for the insight. I am hoping what you mentioned in "The Bad" was the "misspeak" of an over zealous, misguided trainer. I don't want to believe that this amazing education is built on shifting sands, a matrix of fabrication. What say Sir?
      • Tex
        Tex
        offline 2

        Re: ILP in the fall

        Mon, April 10, 2006 - 8:31 PM
        Jaguar asked;

        "Thank you for the insight. I am hoping what you mentioned in "The Bad" was the "misspeak" of an over zealous, misguided trainer. I don't want to believe that this amazing education is built on shifting sands, a matrix of fabrication. What say Sir? "


        It was as much a part of the GSLP also. It is part of the Seminar Leaders program.
        I hope they have changed this, but I have spoken to some people that have confirmed that it was also part of their IFLP, predecessor to the ILP.

        the Trainer was Charlene Afremow, who was one of the founders of Lifespring and then joined Werner as one of the first Est trainer in the 70s. Charlene was Werner's mentor in a program called Mind Dynamics. Werner took a lot from Mind Dynamics and incorporated it into his Est Training.

        Charlene was later dismissed by Werner after she protested the way the company was being run and how the staff was being overworked. The Trainers were required to work 60-70 hours, 6 days a week. She later sued WEA, Werner Erhard Associates, for wrongful firing due to age age discrimination.

        She has since reconciled with Landmark and Harry and company and now leads the Children's Forum, or whatever they call it now.

        I would say the "enrollment" techniques of "story making" speaks less to the efficacy and validity of the programs and more to a problem in how the business is run. I was young at the time and it was an eye-opener for me.

        I think the attitude was the "ends justifies the means."
        I found it to be a serious integrity problem and didn't want to be part of it.

        Thanks for asking Jaguar
        • Re: ILP in the fall

          Mon, April 10, 2006 - 11:07 PM
          Thanks for taking the time, Tex.

          I am signed up for the SELP. I am loving the Landmark work. I decided in the Forum to make sure I stayed focused on why I WAS THERE.

          I share my way of being with everyone in different ways as I go about my life. Some folks I invite to intro Forum nights. I think a person has to be in the right space to sign up just like that. Others see the way my life is and are curious as to why I am the way I am. That affords me the opportunity to bring up my way of being . Of course, the Landmark Education is a huge part of my sharing.

          I strive to keep a balance, every day, in every way. including the Landmark Education.

          namaste













          '. In my own way, I am enrolling everyone I touch every day. Some will bubble up and end up in the Forum. It is as it should
    • Re: ILP in the fall

      Mon, April 10, 2006 - 5:29 PM
      Hi Tex,

      Thanks for letting me know how it went for you. I'd like to talk about this part of your response:
      "I was made an example of for being 2 minutes late for an assisting agreement. If I had run from the parking garage to the hotel I could have made it. I CHOSE not to. {:~D
      "

      I've known you for about 6 months. You have a lot of cool insights, but I think you're dragging along some stuff from the past. Would you consider reviewing the Forum or taking the Advanced Course? I think you'd have a breakthrough or two. By the way, I can tell you Landmark is really trying to shift that "sales pressure to get butts in the seats" thing.

      Joe
      • Tex
        Tex
        offline 2

        Re: ILP in the fall

        Mon, April 10, 2006 - 8:53 PM
        Hi Joe,

        Thanks for the invite. i can't review the Forum as I never took the current incarnation. I did see Werner creating it in San Francisco via sattelite. I saw it twice.

        Given that, I had my fill of both Est and the Forum and moved on.
        As far as dragging along stff from the past, don't we all.

        I wouldn't change anything. I loved the Est Training. It was great. That's why I was willing to be part of the GSLP. I didn't find the GSLP to be as good. Some of it was disillusioning, as they weren't practicing what they were preaching in their programs. And striving to meet enrollment quotas was not how I wanted to interact with people. One more week of stats and I would have qualified to lead guest seminars, just before I left.

        As for the past, "Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."
        It is valuable to not discard or disregard what you have learned. I have found that when I say good things about Est, I draw the ire of the "anti-cult" crowd, and if I criticize aspects of my Est experience or Landmark's business plan, Landmark acolytes also get upset. I'm OK with both reactions, and I will keep trying to tell it as I saw it.

        As for shifting the 'enrollment" game as you mention, I must tell you they were talking about "tranforming" this over 24 years ago too! I'm sure things have changed some.

        The Special Intro to the Forum I went to in Montreal in December was very similar to the Special Guest Seminars I was a part of in the eary 80s.

        And I'm saying this is a good thing, not a bad thing.
        I still think their programs offer great value. And they stll have some of the same problems they had over 20 years ago. Nobody is perfect.

        Good luck, if you decide to do it. Just keep it in perspective. and once again, thanks for the invite.
        • Re: ILP in the fall

          Tue, April 11, 2006 - 2:35 AM
          i did the ilp in 2001, and got to about the same spot as tex before i resigned... i had been passed to lead an introduction and was one registration away from my targeted numbers.

          what happed to me is that i went into my classroom and found one of the coaches had left the course. we were told that it was an issue about use of substance, and that was against the agreement we had made. for those who don't know me, i am an activist for dance rights and the rave scene, and am a proudly countercultural person who has always been up to bringing about positive change in the world. i am a regular pot smoker, and credit two main things in my life to my personal development: the insights i gained through landmark education, and the insights i have gained through ganja and loud bass on the dance floor. i hold both of these learning opportunities in very high regard, but most of my most powerful and life-shifting insights happened in the latter situation. i cannot deny that.

          and i am a person of my word... and had never been told that there was any agreement not to use any subtances. so i went to the center manager and was told that i must have misunderstood or been out of the room when that agreement was discussed, but i'm pretty certain it was somehow skipped over since i would have been very aware had it been discussed.

          my stand is that transformation can be accessed in many ways, and that use of certain substances has been used by people for thousands of years to gain access to realms of information and insights that are simply not easily available in other ways, unless you sit in a cave somewhere and hope to be struck by an epiphany. i understand that the business needs to protect itself against potential scandal, considering the history of est and werner's problems, but it still felt out of integrity for me to take on an anti-ganja stance, because that would require me to turn my back on one of my great teachers. so i resigned.

          that experience made the ilp truly one of the greatest learning experiences of my life. first, i learned to take on more than i ever thought possible, which is what is required of you in the program. the level of personal integrity and impeccability that is expected is phenomenal, and calls you to be someone you never imagined you were.

          the hours you will work are also huge. we had two assisting agreements plus many many hours of studying each week. i don't know how i would have done it if i weren't self-employed.

          the coaching in public speaking and the vigilence at pushing you beyond your limits is remarkable, and even with me not completing the program, left me far beyond where i was and who i was when i began.

          we were never encouraged to lie about anything, tex, so perhaps that's been cleared up. i never would do that in a million years, and if i was asked to, i too would have walked. it simply is not possible to espouse integrity and truth-speaking while asking people to lie. we did get coaching in how to make our personal story more interesting and engaging, of course.

          and i saw more than a few people blossom into something entirely new and pretty much unrecognizable. one of our group drove almost two hours to get to our classrooms every week, using that time to listen to the format (the script you must learn verbatim in order to then be able to understand it well enough to generate it yourself). she was the fastest person to be passed to lead ever, and was an introduction leader before she was half-way through! she went on to go onto staff, and now is a very successful entrepreneur who is still up to changing the world in a big way... and i know that the ilp was a major turning point in her life.

          so, my advice is -- if you see something here that really turns you on, go for it. if you are ready to step up to something far more demanding than anything you have ever taken on, go for it. if you are ready to invest your time and energy into recreating yourself as an entirely different level of person, go for it. it will take a lot of time (i estimated 20 hours a week including drive time), and it will leave you banging your head against the wall and being activated in every possible way.

          and if this stuff doesn't speak to you, and you dont' see the value for yourself, then don't do it.

          i also highly recommend having completed the communication courses first too. there's so much to get there about being with people and creating space for real conversations that is invaluable in the ilp -- and in life in general. there are tools there that will set you up to succeed in the ilp on a much bigger scale, i think.
          • Tex
            Tex
            offline 2

            Re: ILP in the fall

            Tue, April 11, 2006 - 6:46 AM
            Leslie said:

            "we were never encouraged to lie about anything, tex, so perhaps that's been cleared up. i never would do that in a million years, and if i was asked to, i too would have walked. it simply is not possible to espouse integrity and truth-speaking while asking people to lie. we did get coaching in how to make our personal story more interesting and engaging, of course."

            I'm really glad to hear that Leslie. That suggestion was a shocker to most of my GSLP.
            I knew what they were trying to say. You could own any "story," and of course you need to have it flow. They also used to say "fake it till you make it."
            Perhaps that has changed now also.
          • Tex
            Tex
            offline 2

            Re: ILP in the fall

            Tue, April 11, 2006 - 8:43 AM
            Hi Leslie,
            You said.

            "and i am a person of my word... and had never been told that there was any agreement not to use any subtances. so i went to the center manager and was told that i must have misunderstood or been out of the room when that agreement was discussed, but i'm pretty certain it was somehow skipped over since i would have been very aware had it been discussed."

            I think this was always the case. It's less a need to protect their business as it is a way to insure that people are conscious. In the Est Training the same request was also made.

            Why would you view not smoking weed for a few months an "anti-ganja stance?"
            It wasn't a moral judgment, just a requirement while in the program.
            • Re: ILP in the fall

              Tue, April 11, 2006 - 10:56 AM
              i viewed it as if they asked me to stop going to church while i was in the program. and that is not a choice i was willing to make. believe me, i examined the idea very carefully and it allowed me to get really clear on my own values, morals and path in life. i had some real sadness that my path meant that i would not be able to continue with leadership training with landmark, because i know that i am a very powerful and effective speaker and coach.

              but to thine self be true -- and my choice was the one that was true to me.

              as far as "fake it til you make it" -- in many ways i think that's actually great coaching for many situations -- it's part of shifting a way of seeing the world to me, and i do it when i feel that i'm being run by my rackets or stories and it's affecting me in a weird way -- i just put on the smile, or put on the way of thinking that i'm really committed to, and before i know it, the rest of me is there, too.

              though it sounds like that may not have been quite how they meant it. fake it till you make it is more about mood to me, and making up lies to inspire people is, well, not what i'm up to ;^)
  • Re: ILP in the fall

    Thu, May 4, 2006 - 5:03 PM
    I just found this site.
    I did the training in '81 and was around for a couple years. I didn't do the GSLP. In 2001 I saw that I could use some of the things I got from the training so Googled until I found Landmark Education online, called the Houston Center, found out I was a reviewer and was in the Landmark Forum a couple weeks later, Advanced Course a few weeks later, Wisdom and SELP at the same time and did the ILP the next year. I have been an Introduction Leader for the last 3+ years and am completing at the end of May.
    I got great value out of the ILP. I'm sure that taking Wisdom distinctions into it made it more pleasureable. It does require a time commitment and it is rigorous. 2 agreements a week, etc, etc. Probably no more than coaching SELF.
    Lots of training around customer service. More about enrollment conversations. Given that the promise of our work is that you can have anything you want for yourself or your life [provided you "enroll" others in your having gotten], that training in enrollment expands your capacity to get what you want.

    The ILP is not a course, it is an assisting program. As far as Tex's comment:
    1.) You are trying to produce statistics(quotas) for a for-profit-company.

    I used to get on it in the est days about being a salesman for a company I was spending money on and wouldn't invite guests. When I got back into the conversation, I realized that that is the business model Landmark uses. Inviting guests is just a lab to work on your enrollment conversations so you can get what you want. If I see a movie that I like, I tell everyone about it and I finally got that the Landmark Forum is no different, I got great results and it would be inauthentic for me to not share the work. I live 50 miles from the center. I took a look at why I/we go to the center. I assert that it is because we are listened to as a possibility.
    Now in my little community there are 12 people [more on the way] who have done the Forum. I get to be listened to as a possibility in my own neighborhood.

    2.) Many people allow it to affect their work and family life, to it's detriment.
    These days it is an integrity issue to be assisting at the expense of your life and family. The assisting agreement says that you are committed to getting more out of assisting than you put in to it.

    3.) They used to suggest you make up "stories" to "touch, move and inspire,"
    In preparation for leading we don't make stuff up these days. The intro has real shares about current things that are going on in your life and the possibilities you invented out of them. Every time you lead [unless you are leading pretty much back to back] you create new [true] shares.

    I loved what I got out of est [my fave is a 25 year, passionate, ever unfolding marriage that was definitelyt not predictable before I did the training] I LOVE how the enterprise has evolved. Tex, if you are reading this, I think you can review [I did in 2001] and it was the same 3 day LF that is delivered today. Everyone I know who did the training and then came back years later as I did has loved it and hung around. You can actually have your watch and go to the bathroom! The paradigm has shifted from "training" to "coaching", much more user friendly.

    I didn't like the sense of the ends justifies the means in the old days either and that definitely contributed to my 18 year absence. Today we hand out a two question questionaire at the end of an introduction. One question is about whether or not the guest experience pressure. I could register 20 out of 20 and if I have one person who says they experienced pressure, I did not have an effective lead. Much different than the old days.

    So Joe, if what you are about is having more people do the Landmark Forum, definitely do the ILP.
    Bill




    • Bill, Thanks for the great share. I hope you hang around this tribe.
      I'm getting clear that I want mastery of enrollment and registration conversations.
      Coaching was rewarding for me and the "gaps" I have are in those areas.

      Tex, I hope you'll register to review the Forum. I definitely see you being able to leave a few chairs behind... :) They had a special Forum here in DC this month for reviewers only (and it only cost $150). I hope they offer it where you are.

      Leslie, by the way, how did your review of the Forum go?

      I'll keep you guys posted.
      • Hi everyone,

        This got me thinking about my two runs in the IFLP. My experience was very similar to Leslie's. She (you, Leslie) has an uncanny way of speaking my experience so perfectly!

        I, too, was using a sacrament on a spiritual path the first time I was in IFLP. My usage was astrologically timed and I had been doing it before I got into the IFLP. It was a five-year program at that time. I don't remember whether the agreement was there or not in IFLP, or whether I might have been confused about it when I signed it. But I communicated, about halfway thru my IFLP, that I was on this spiritual program (the Lion Path). I was asked to either give it up, or give up IFLP. I was totally shocked at the request and felt like my head was spinning that day. My housemate and I were both in the same boat. So we left IFLP.

        I repeated IFLP about 10 years later. I completed it and was certified to lead intros. I met my quotas. I got a very high degree of integrity and impeccability out of it and a high degree of productivity in my life. I was coached on my appearance and clothes, and just my whole presentation in front of people. I got comfortable in front of large crowds. I went on to help raise $500K in private funds in three months time (as president of a team) to qualify for a grant to build a county library. That's miraculous!! A lot of that involved giving public speeches. I was the star of a video about the current, old library that was sent to the State senate. The library experience was the most rewarding of my life and I never would have been involved had I not done the IFLP. The skills I used came directly out of the IFLP. I coached the next IFLP after mine, too.

        I never had any sense that we were encouraged to make up stories. We were coached in honing our own shares to make them as appealing as possible. I have always loved the integrity and truth of Landmark's programs. It did seem to be a lot about meeting quotas, but I knew it was a practice that would serve me well to master, and it also makes such a huge difference in the lives of the people who choose to participate in the Forum.

        I must say that I met a lot of people in Landmark's programs who disappointed me very profoundly--for example, a fellow IFLP coach, an attorney, borrowed $1,000 from me just for one weekend to help his ex-wife move, and he never paid it back. I loaned it to him off my credit card because I didn't have it myself! That destroyed our friendship. There were other disappointments, too, over all the years that I participated. But as someone pointed out to me, there are 3 distinctions to keep in mind: 1) the work, 2) the leaders, and 3) the participants. If you collapse any of those distinctions together, you can get in trouble. The work itself is grand and stands on its own! The leaders all have their own idiosyncracies, but they are highly trained in the work and can be trusted. The participants, including fellow coaches, are all there still learning and developing mastery. They may or may not be trustworthy. That helped me a lot, and I've never forgotten it.

        I'd say "go for it!"
      • Tex
        Tex
        offline 2
        I'm really happy to hear from Bill and Lynne that certain things have changed.
        The "ends justifies the means" issue Bill addressed was a problem. I'm glad to hear things have changed.

        Are you saying there are special forums just for reviewers?

        I'm in Boston.
        • Tex,
          Yes, they are having a "reviewers only" forum in DC this month.
          You might call the center and see if they are doing the same thing in Boston.
          I think it would be a great way to see "what's so" in the current forum without suffering through 2 1/2 days of no agreement... :)
          Joe
          • Tex
            Tex
            offline 2
            I'll check in to it.
            I didn't get the joke.
            2.5 days of no agreement?????
            • Tex,
              Landmark Forum leaders are so cool because they can stand in front of a room of 200 people that are on it and create enough space for those 200 people to "get it". Landmark now calls this situation generating enrollment in the face of no agreement. One of the things they say I'll get from the ILP is being able to generate enrollment in the face of "no agreement". In my view a Landmark Forum made up entirely of reviewers would have the huge advantage (one would think) of having much more agreement and space for possibility right from the start instead of taking 2.5 days to get most of the participants off it.
              :)
              • Tex
                Tex
                offline 2
                Hi Joe,

                Thanks for the context, I didn't recognize the phrase.
                If anyone knows how often they do these "reviewer Forums" let me know.

                At $150 it would be a bargain.
                I really enjoyed the Special Intro to the Forum I saw in Montreal last December.
                It was like a stroll down memory lane.
                The core of the est Training is still there.
                It was almost identical to the "Special Guest Seminars" I helped produce in the early 80s at the John Hancock Hall in Boston.

                I even helped produce a Werner event there. That was a big deal at the time.

                Montreal is unique in that things are done bilingually there, using a "bi-directional" translator.
                • Tex,
                  I called the Montreal center and they said they don't have any reviewer's forums coming up.
                  So, next I called the DC center and Jen there said they could fit you in this weekend (starting on 5/13).
                  Then she said the normal price to review the Forum is just $195 anytime (not sure what it would be in Canada).
                  Hope this helps,
                  Joe
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Tex
                    Tex
                    offline 2
                    Thanks Joe.
                    I only travel to Montreal on occassion. Just so happens I'm visiting the Universite de Montreal this week. That reminded me of my last visit here, when I checked ut the "Special Intro..."
                    I wouldn't review it here if anywhere.
                    It would be Boston or nothing.
                    They conduct the Forum bilingually in Montreal.
                    Seeing a 2 hour "Special Intro..." like that was about as much as I could take of that.

                    It sounds like you're saying the $150 is for reviewers only?
                    $195 to review any Forum.
                    I wonder if they still have all the old est records?
                    • Tex, the Landmark database still has the participation records of everyone who did any course since the old est days. If you haven't yet reviewed the Landmark Forum, my coaching is to just review in a Forum with new participants as well. You will be a contribution to the new participants and they will be a contribution to you. The LF will be very familiar and include a lot of new material. I recommend doing the Advanced Course after the LF. That's where the nature of reality conversation is now.
                      There is a curriculum for living now. The Landmark Forum, the Advanced Course and the Self Expression and Leadership Program. In The Landmark Forum you get complete with your past and create a clearing by putting the past in the past where it belongs. In the Advanced Course you constitute yourself as a possibility to fill the clearing from the Forum. In the Self Expression and Leadership Program you enroll your community in the possibility that you are.
                      • Tex
                        Tex
                        offline 2
                        Bill said,

                        "In The Landmark Forum you get complete with your past and create a clearing by putting the past in the past where it belongs. In the Advanced Course you constitute yourself as a possibility to fill the clearing from the Forum. In the Self Expression and Leadership Program you enroll your community in the possibility that you are"

                        Thanks Bill.
                        It sounds like a "canned"response though.
                        Most of what you state above I "got" 25 years ago in est.
                        The jargon is diferent now, and I have to tell you it was always a turn off for me.

                        What is "enroll your community in the possibility that you are?"
                        Can you say that in your own words, without the jargonistic style?

                        This kind of language is what makes so many people run the other way screaming "it's a cult!"

                        Too bad, because I found the "take home message" so valuable.

                        In the "Special Intro to the Forum" I attended the Forum Leader used straight talk, just as the est Trainers did in the old days.

                        What he talked about sounded exactly like the est Training, which I thought was a good thing.
                        • Hi Tex,

                          > What is "enroll your community in the possibility that you are?"

                          In the Landmark Advanced Course, you learn to identify your familiar way of being (your Act) and generate yourself as any possibility you choose. There's other stuff in the course, but for me those were the key distinctions for me. After the course, it really worked for me to share that possibility with other and my relationships shifted.

                          So, the way that you make the possibility that you are (or any possibility) real is to enroll others in it. This means you share the possibility with them so that they are touched, moved and inspired by it.

                          It does take some practice to express the distinctions in normal English...
                          • Tex
                            Tex
                            offline 2
                            Hi joe,

                            It was simpler in the est days, the language wasn't as thick.
                            Or in simple English, share your vision with others.
                            Shares your enthusiasm, love, kindness, creativity, spirituality etc.

                            When someone talks to me in a way that sounds canned or rehearsed or in some form of psycho-babble I am definitelly not enrolled.

                            Of course actions still speak louder than words, to used a canned phrase. {:~D
                            What turned me off to the Forum was the increase in jargon.
                            It came from Werner, who was really into Wittgenstein at the time and Fernando Flores. I saw him creating the Forum via satellite from San Francisco on two serparate occassions in the mid-80s.

                            As an aside, during one of the sessions I saw a friend of mine from Israel sitting in the front row. I called her brother's house a few hours later in San Fran, and she answered the phone!

                            Small world.
  • Re: ILP in the fall

    Thu, August 17, 2006 - 12:03 AM
    Today I signed up for the ILP starting on Friday. Am in SELP. Full time assisted in the San Diego Forum last weekend. Heard Richard Condon.....A VOLCANO......and I know volcanos....from Hawaii nei and the Big island.
    • Re: ILP in the fall

      Fri, August 18, 2006 - 8:17 AM
      Hi Jaguar,
      Just between you and me, I'm backing away from the ILP at the end of August. I'm in an unexpected job search right now and I don't want to be trying to learn a new (highly technical) job and at the same time be spending lots of time on ILP. I'm committed to completing the ILP, I just don't want to do it now. I wish you the best in yours.
      Joe
      • Re: ILP in the fall

        Fri, August 18, 2006 - 9:36 AM
        G'day Joe,

        I get what you are saying. Fitting all we need or wish to do sometimes requires us to step back and change our schedules. Makes life all the more exciting, vibrant and full of zest.

        Thank you for your wishes. I am bursting with excitement.

        I wish you much success and bliss on your path, Joe. I look forward to chatting with you about ILP.

        aho.
        • Re: ILP in the fall

          Sat, August 19, 2006 - 10:12 AM
          I've been working on this "make more time" thing for about a year now. I've eliminated many non-essential activities (like calculating my gas mileage on every tank...), but it comes down to making time for family, work, and personal commitments and I've found it very difficult to say I'm a "5" in all three areas. As a matter of fact, it's a lot like pinball. When I get three balls going, I usually lose all three shortly after. I'd like to hear if others have found a way to balance all of this (AND spend 20 hours a week on Landmark stuff)
          • Tex
            Tex
            offline 2

            Re: ILP in the fall

            Sun, August 20, 2006 - 10:05 PM
            Landmark is a for-profit company.
            Don't feel guilty about not making yourself available for a for-profit company, when you yourself are struggling to make ends meet and find time for family, friends and the things you love to do.

            Instead of of looking for a way to make that work, perhaps you should be asking yourself why you would want to.

            When I took the GSLP I was young and single. Eventually I realized I was being used. I did initially get a lot out the GSLP. When it became all about statistics and parroting "wonderful shares" I lost interest and became disillusioned.

            On a different note, here is a web link to a trailer to a movie about Werner Erhard, with live footage of him leading the Est Training.

            It brings back fond memories of the Training.

            www.transformationfilm.com/trailer.htm
            • Re: ILP in the fall

              Mon, August 21, 2006 - 5:27 PM
              Tex,

              I get that you are concerned for me as a person. You are a good friend.

              The "why" is easy. I want to be able to have all areas of my life at a "5" (out of 5 - SELP thing). In SELP, I learned how to be unstoppable in one thing. When I coached SELP, I took on being unstoppable in all areas. I think it's possible, but I've been trying to make it happen for about a year now. The "how" has eluded me. It should be possible to handle all areas, but I always seem to do an "either/or" (attend to one thing at the expense of another). I'm sure I could handle all areas in a half-assed way, but my goal is to be excellent in all areas.

              As far as the being used thing, I agree that Landmark is getting value out me me doing ILP. I believe that I am getting value equal to at least the amount of time I put in, or I wouldn't be doing this work.

              One question: if you're disillusioned, what brings you to Landmark discussion groups?

              Another question just popped to mind: Why aren't all seminar and SELP leaders independently wealthy?

              Joe
              • Re: ILP in the fall

                Mon, August 21, 2006 - 5:43 PM
                I do not think it is possible to handle all areas, at all times. not unless you want to stress yourself into ineffectuality. I believe that the basis of bliss on this planet is a connected, loving, caring, blissful family, the cornerstone of clan, community, society, country....... and so we build from there. There are many communities on this planet that do not connect with our version. It is all how we see it from whence we stand. Enjoy....all we have is NOW. Our cherished ones are where it's at....all else slips into its proper place and space then.....that is the way I see it. namaste.

                I am loving ILP soooo far....Still got a couple of months of SELP left. Not much time to breathe.....laughing, loving, being...global, blissful transformation.
              • Tex
                Tex
                offline 2

                Re: ILP in the fall

                Tue, August 22, 2006 - 6:47 PM
                Hi Joe,

                My disillusionment was about one aspect of my participation over 20 years ago.
                That was over years ago.
                As you know I have a range of experiences with Est, but it was overall a very powerful, life changing experience.